Pebble in the sky

The game started in the beginning of Febuary 2004. This is also the first game I've played in online (Together with Popgun Armies). Sofar the game is progressing slowly but steadely and one player never showed up. Haven't had much contact with neighbours yet but theres a lot of people so this'll be an interesting game.

Finished the game. This was a very interesting learning experiance for me. I was the Weakest race althrought the game but abused the Diplomacy enough to survive. The game was ended due to too many dropouts witch I hope never happens to me in a game I host. The players had a lot to say though so before you start, go to the bathroom, get a drink & some popcorn, and enjoy a good read!

Nash/Host :

Okay, my feeling is that if there are less then half the players still in the game, it is a good time to end.

First of all, to all who are in the game - well done, congratulations - it was a good game. Hopefully you all enjoyed the game.

Secondly I'd like to offer my apologies, for messing up a bit with hosting. My life since February has had a few unexpected events, including moving due to relationship issues, my father passing away, and my job description getting changed quite drastically.

Finally declaring a winner now is a little silly. There is a lot of game still ahead. And things can change a lot in that time.

Anyway reading the game state summary from people I was most amazed - there was a lot of politicking, diplomacy, duplication and general mayhem going on.

So now... the winner...

There were two main contenders. The first of course was the Asgard. The Asgard own a reasonable chunk of the galaxy. On an individual basis they are way in front. Economically they are close to 50k in 2460.

The second contender is the Speck/Dark Angel/Q-Tip alliance. Together they control an area of space about the same size. Economically the alliance is about the same as the Asgards.

I am going to call the 3-way alliance the winners at this point. The main thing in their favour is they currently have a higher total technology base, and I think they are in a better place to deal with the Wobbler, Legion situation. Additionally I think the Asgard were not aware of the full situation around them, and that lack of intelligence might cost them a bit when push came to Armageddon Nubians... [I'll put some explanations below]

So congratulations to:

• Richard O'Shaughnessy / Speck v2
• Casey Steadman / The Dark Angels
• Freddy Hansen / Q-Tips

Now for the notable mentions: First Richard Hannen / The Asgard.
Not only was Richard controlling the largest chunk of space single handedly, Richard was mentioned multiple times as playing fairly, honestly and generally well by the other players. Obviously he was going to be there at the end of game, and to be fair the Alliance would have got a run for their money. Unfortunately for Richard, his allies were not as strong as he thought...
So second place, and "Best and Fairest" goes to Richard Hannen.

The "Diplomacy" award goes to the Ethereals. It seems everyone thought the Ethereals were allied to them! I'll leave it up to ForceUser to tell the world exactly what the Ethereals were up to, but for now say well done: Maybe you should become an ambassador?

If you want to post your thoughts on the game, feel free to post below this forum. I have got some excellent notes from a few of you, but I would rather you post them yourselves. In particular, ForceUser, whose side were you really on?

SevenofNine :

Thanks for the "second place, and "Best and Fairest"", much appreciated gents, and well done to the Speck/Dark Angel/Q-Tip alliance. Appreciation also to the Etherials, Lemmings and Pioneers for sticking it out until the end.

A few quick observations to get the discussion going..

I knew how week the Etherials were (9 planets, etc) and I knew they were allied to everyone - the few occasions that I was involved in 3 way battles gave that away, as did the fact that the Darks gave them a planet. Also, If I were the Etherials I wouldn't have make enemies !
As I said to the etherials early on - I could wipe them out very easily (3 or 4 turns should do it since he was AR), but what would I have gained ? 9 planets with no mines or factories, most of which were low value for me ! The only reason I was giving planets to the Etherials was so that when the game got going he would have an alternative to attacking me ! I feared a surprise stab, especially when he positioned scouts on all of my planets - but in the end I figured that it was best that he knew how strong I was as a deterrent, even if he was giving the info to other players (there were already SS races after all). I knew where his home world was and could easily have taken out the mineral fountain.

I didn't know the Speck position - I suspected (feared) they were at least neutral with the Darks, but that was all I knew. As they were HE and the Darks narrow hab, they were natural allies.

With the Legion and the Wobloids I stood a fair chance (even against the Speck/Dark Angel/Q-Tip alliance) however the main reason the game was lost for me once they dropped out was that ALL of my techs were expensive ! I don't think I actually researched anything during the game - I got all my tech by trade. Without allies, this would have killed me in the long run. I knew the Legion and the Wobloids were not strong, but they occupied the Alliance, and they gave me tech ! I also hoped to get Tachyon scanners.

The main questions I have are

Why did the Pioneers attack me ?
Why did the Lemmings grab so little space early on ?

Good game all, shame it ended so soon.

My race password was "aardvark" if anyone is interested in seeing my position/race design in more detail. I never use the same race twice !

Nash/Host :

Quote from SevenofNine :
“I knew how week the Etherials were (9 planets, etc) and I knew they were allied to everyone - the few occasions that I was involved in 3 way battles gave that away, as did the fact that the Darks gave them a planet. Also, If I were the Etherials I wouldn't have make enemies !”

Now I'm doubly impressed. Not only were the Ethereals allied with everyone, everyone knew they were double crossing them...

Freddy Hansen :

Here's a summary of the game from my perspective. Pull up a map to follow along:

Q-TIPS
PRT: SS
LRT: IFE, NRSE, ISB, NAS, LSP
Grav: Immune
Temp: -12C to 156C
Rad: 45mR to 89 mR
(equals 1 in 5 planets habitable)
Growth: 19%
One resource for every 1500 colonists.
Factories: 12/9/12 (1 kT less Ge checked)
Mines: 10/10/5
+75%: En, Co, Pr, Bi. (starts at Tech 3)
Standard: El.
-50%: We.
No left over points.

GAME STRATEGY
Before the game started my intent was to keep a low profile and rely on remote mining to produce enough Ge to build all my factories. My race needs quite a few factories actually, 44% more than a nominal race, and coupled with the 19% growth rate this creates a huge craving for Ge. In test beds this worked really well, and I achieved superb resource levels by the usual bench mark years 2425, 2450. Note that the race does not have OBRM, so it transitions naturally to war time economy with great remote mining. Well, that was the theory at least...

THE EARLY YEARS (2400-2417)
The game started and I find that my homeworld is LGM 4, the most centrally located of all HWs. Annoying. With NAS I scan all the way to my neighbour's HWs right from the start. By observing their scouts and colony ships I quickly learn that my nearest neighbours are the Legion (IS) to the East with HW Raven's Eye, the Dark Angels (SS) S at Haig, and Woblor (SS) W at Frederick. My neighbour N is Asgard but they are a bit further away at Aqua. I also figure out that the Lemmings are somewhere NW, the Ethereals NE, the Adioids and Fnord SE, the Specks and Pionner SW, the Anarod and BFTs W. (The locations of the other races remained unknown to me to much later in the game.)

My initial scouting reveals much fewer than 1 in 5 habitable planets. Frustrating. I bite the bullet and settle Utgard, Bootes, Excel, and 007. These would remain my only planets for decades. The Legion settles Barbeque soon after I settle Bootes. I suggest a joint defense of the Bootes-Barbeque cluster, in the back of my mind thinking that this could be the first step toward a possible alliance in the long term. After all, a combination of IS and SS toys could be much fun. I don't suggest an alliance at this point, though, since I think it's way too early to discuss such things. The Legion, however, is not interested even in the limited cooperation that I suggest. He sends me a few messages about how Bootes is his planet, and how he's promised it to someone else in a trade. Through scouting and some communication I learn everyone's hab ranges and figure out that if the Legion has promised the planet to someone it must be the Woblor. Unfortunately for me, the Woblor, the Legion, and myself have very similar hab ranges. I'm the one in the middle, so an obvious move on their part would be to ally together and attack me from both sides, divvying up my planets between them, and establishing a physical connection between their two empires. Ouch. I put up empty orbital forts on Utgard and Bootes to prevent pop drops, and I go on a diplomatic offensive, trying to learn what I can from other races about the Legion and the Woblor. At this point, Dark Angels are pretty quiet and I had a small mishap with the Asgard (accidentally dropping a small freighter's worth of colonists on Bilskirnir), so my best communications were with the Lemmings and the Specks.

The Lemmings don't know anything about either the Woblor or the Legion, but he promises to send along whatever information he picks up from his scouts. The Specks don't know much about the Legion, but has noticed that the Woblor isn't colonizing anything and is producing remote miners like mad. Worrying. I suspect that the Woblor might be a one world wonder, and of course he has to be right at my doorstep. Great. I decide that I can't risk building remote miners of my own at this point because they would be sitting ducks against a 1WW race. (This was a mistake; I should have remote mined around Excel, which remained a safe area throughout the game.) I'm beginning to think about getting myself an ally. The problem is that I can't think of why anyone would want to help me. The Asgard had graciously overlooked the Bilskirnir incident, and the Lemmings and Specks were sharing much information. All possible candidates, but the Asgard is CA and I couldn't imagine he'd be interested in an early war, and the Lemmings and Specks are far, far away. The Dark Angels would be a nice ally, but we had no communications going at this point, and he seemed happy to intersettle with the Adioids.

Next thing (this is in 2411) I get a message from the Specks, essentially a warning that something "crazy" will go down involving me, the Woblor, and the Legion. Panic. I send medium freighters toward Utgard (two years travel time) and Bootes (three years travel) with enough minerals to arm my orbital forts there. In 2415 the Legion shows up with four medium freighters (with cargo pods) to pop drop Bootes, but gets stopped by my orbital fort. I warn the Asgard, the Specks, and the Lemmings of the expansionist nature of the Legion. Unknown to me, it turns out that the Dark Angels have also been worrying about the Legion/Woblor alliance, and that they have been in serious discussion with the Specks about this threat, and what to do about it. So, out of the blue, I get a message from the Specks and the Dark Angels in which they suggest a three-way alliance. This would be a full alliance sharing all information, .pla files, splitting up research duties, exchange tech, transfer war ship fleets, and evacuate planets if someone else could use them better. Since I was effectively at war with the Legion, and ill-prepared for it, I didn't take long to think about their offer: I accepted.

THE ALLIANCE YEARS (2418-2460 game end)
Research in the alliance was organized so that Specks would research We, Dark Angels would research Co and El, and the Q-tips would research or (using their central location to their advantage) trade for the other three fields (Q-tips traded for a couple of levels of Bi early in the game and Pr late in the game with the Asgard, and En was provided by the Ethereals). Our interior tech exchange worked pretty well, except I always felt that I was behind in We because the Specks are HE and lack star gates, causing a slight delay in We transfer. (FYI, when the game ended in 2460, the alliance tech levels were En 14, We 20, Pr 13, Co 15, El 14, Bi 13.)

During 2418-2425 (or so) the Legion tried to intercept freighters going to and from Bootes using their Mini-gun FFs. They were pretty unsuccessful as their FFs did not have enough firepower to destroy a freighter in one year of combat. Nevertheless, it was a clear indication of the Legion's intentions, and sure enough, in 2421 they show up at Bootes with 11 Spit Ball DDs armed with 2x Beta torps, 2x BCs, fuel mizer and fuel tank, destroying my orbital fort with 9x Beta torps, 5x X-rays, 10x Crobmnium, 11x Cow-hide, 1x BC, and pop-dropping the planet with five medium freighters (156000 troops). This was not enough to take the planet, though. I still had 199500 colonists left and put up a new orbital fort with 24x Beta torps, 20x Crobmnium, 1x BC, calculated to be enough to defeat the Legion fleet if he stayed in orbit. I didn't expect him to stay, but he did, and his fleet was destroyed. I imagine this fleet represented a significant Ir investment on his part this early in the game (especially since he's IS), so this must have been a serious backlash. For the remainder of the game, Bootes remained well fortified and unattacked, even though positioned in what effectively was deep inside Legion space. Dark Angels held Trog for a long time, despite this being a red planet to them, which was useful in sending more colonists and minerals (Ge and Bo) to Bootes from LGM 4. After the Legion later took Trog I resorted to heavily cloaked large freighters to run back and forth. These were unescorted but were never attacked (so presumably undetected?). The Legion put his attention to his south after failing to take Bootes, at first going after Fnord/Adioid worlds, but then getting hostile with the Dark Angels. I'll leave this part of the story for the Dark Angels to write about since they know the details better.

In the meantime, a wormhole allowed Dark Angels to settle on Whistler's Mother, near the Woblor HW. The Legion settled Niflheim. The Specks settled Harrison and Lambda. Realizing that we were sitting on a powder keg, we decided to grasp the initiative and attack first. In the early 2430s, the Specks built a large fleet of Jihad DDs and Colloidal Phaser DDs along with bombers on his larger production worlds Mandrake and Arafat, and on his HW, Brass Rat. The goal was to eliminate the Woblor from the game, ensuring that we alone would have SS toys in the end game, and hopefully slowing the Legion's progress toward Tachyon Detectors. On his way to Frederick, Specks first struck Sodium, destroyed the space dock and bombed the planet. Simultaneously, Dark Angels destroyed the space dock at New, to prevent Woblor ship production there, and the Q-tips raided and destroyed the Woblor remote mining fleet. I believe we would have destroyed Frederick two years later except that there was a miscalculation on how much fuel was needed, so the Specks fleet couldn't reach the refuel point at Whistler's Mother in one year. The fleet went to Niflheim instead, just as the Legion gated in a large fleet of his effective Bayonet FFs (Colloidals and Croby Sharmor). The battle caused heavy casualties on both sides, with the Legion gaining the upper hand. Next we tried swinging a second fleet of Jihad DDs past the east side of Sodium/Niflheim directly to Whistler's. As an escort against the Bayonet FFs, the Q-tips sent a fleet of Pulsed Sapper FFs to drain the Legion's shields. We simmed this and were certain we'd win if attacked. Unfortunately, the Woblor joined in the battle (which occurred in deep space E of Niflheim) and messed up the battle board so that our ships started on opposite (diagonal) corners, giving just enough time for the Legion ships to destroy the Specks ships before the Q-tips downed the Legion shields. Armed with only pulsed sappers, my ships got destroyed a couple of rounds after that.

Around this time we got undisputable proof of cooperation between the Legion and the Asgard, something we had been suspecting for a while. Faced with a Woblor/Legion/Asgard alliance, we were seriously worried. If these three joined in a full alliance (remember that the rules of the game says that three can win the game together) we'd have a hard time. We figured that the Asgard and the Legion were number one and two at the time, and that the Woblor was in the top five. I had just climbed to ninth, the Dark Angels were around number six, and the Specks were third. We decided to contact the Lemmings and the Ethereals to form a larger group of five, where the Lemmings and the Ethereals would fight the Asgard while the three of us were busy with the Woblor/Legion. A sudden change in playing style on the Asgard part helped us; the Asgard suddenly sent colonizers to the planets around Excel, in clear violation of our border treaty, and he also attacked the Lemmings. The Lemmings declared war on the Asgard while I pop-dropped half a dozen Asgard planets. I confronted the Ethereals with an ultimatum: either work with us or with the Asgard. He said he'd work with us, and for proof he sent us long email chains sent back and forth between the Asgard and the Legion. I couldn't believe it. Here was the entire Legion war plan spelled out. How they would push south from Niflheim while the Asgard were to attack the Q-tips from the north. We also learned that the Asgard player had been away during Easter and that the Legion player had played his turn during this time. This explained the sudden change in playing style, certainly. With this in mind, I made peace overtures with the Asgard, and they agreed, leaving my northern border secure, and leaving them with only one enemy. Yes, as you know, the Lemming war continued, even though they figured out how the whole thing got started (a scouting incident). The Ethereals gave our group of five the nickname "the Resistance" and sent regular emails with info on what the Asgard and the Legion were up to, signing his emails as "Resistance Spy." He also sent a couple of hundred of En tech scouts to us. At least seven levels each, from 7 to 14, for all four of us. Despite this, our group-of-three alliance never trusted him; it would be interesting to learn where his allegiance really lied. At the same time, our group-of-three sent tech to the Lemmings, mostly We, to keep them in the game.

With our northern border safe for the time being, we made plans for a second offensive on the Woblor. The Legion had kept his fleet in this area, and attacked the Dark Angels at Whistler's Mother and Hydroplane. He didn't stay to take over the planets however, but held to the plan spelled out in his emails to Asgard and pushed south to Harrison. Then the Mystery Trader showed up and the Legion used his fleet to try to prevent trade. The Specks built a new fleet, this time consisting of metamorphs of three designs: 10 metamorphs (MMs) with 8x Bludgeons, 4x Organic Armor, 2x Wolverine, 3x Man Jet, and TGDs, 51 MMs with 8x Mark IV blasters, 2x Phased Sappers, 4x Organic, 3x Man Jet, and TGDs, and 56 MMs with 8x Juggernauts, 4x BSCs, 2x Organic, 2x Man Jet, 1x Jammer 20, and TGDs. The Bludgeon and beamer MMs were transferred to Q-tips control, and Specks and I made a flanking move on the west side of Harrison/Niflheim/Sodium (except for a smaller group heading toward Linq and Neuter). We attacked and bombed out New with B-17 Cherry bombers (Specks built 36 of these so far), while the Dark Angels took over Lycra, and an older Q-tip fleet destroyed the Woblors rebuilt remote mining fleet (the third raid on his remote mining; I never figured out why he didn't defend them better). Simultaneous with this, Dark Angels mass packeted Scotch, Emoclew, and Linq, and wiped out the Legion population there. I settled New allowing refueling, and we continued to Hell and repeated the procedure. That brings us to 2460 where we were on the verge of attacking Frederick and also Neuter (with a Dark Angel Juggernaut battleship fleet from Poly Siren). In the next couple of years after that we were planning an offensive on Harrison/Sodium/Niflheim with Doomsday BBs, followed by an invasion of the Legion home territory using Mega Disruptor Flux Cap BBs. Once that was done, we'd have gone to open war with the Asgard.

IN CLOSING:
Finally, answering some questions from emails: Yes, all three of us traded with the south-bound mystery trader. (Who else did? Did anyone trade with the east-bound MTs?) Yes, I got remote mining going eventually, using Maxi-Miners with 10x Robo-Super-Miners, 2x Ultra-Stealth cloaks, and IS10s. Each ship mines about 1000 kT per year at a good planet (or 2000 kT per year at a place like Bagnose!).

I'm obviously leaving out a bunch of stuff, but I hope that was most items of interest. Dark Angels or Specks can maybe add to this if I forget anything? I'd be happy to see the race designs I haven't seen already (i.e., Pionner, Lemmings, Ethereals, Legion, Woblor).

Thanks for the game. It was very enjoyable, although next time I hope I start in a corner somewhere.

Dark Angels :

First, good game guys, was interesting. I'm going to make a fairly candid summation of what went on by my view, including places I think people misstepped, so try not to take mentions of strategic errors too harshly.

I was SS as everyone should know by now with IFE, IS, NRSE, and NARM. I had expensive energy, prop, and bio, cheap weapons and electronics, and normal construction. I was high growth with no factories.

In retrospect, this race design didn't work very well for the game. There were too many people playing in the space given for me to spread out enough. I would have done better playing a more factory dependent race as I lost a lot of growth when I lost places to expand safely.

Good points in my favor so far as placement were the Fnords dropped out before they ever did anything, giving me no threat from my east, and I was on good terms with southern neighbors. I also had hab ranges that were nearly complete reversals of others so I could go to most any planet I wanted and settle it.

So far as bad points, only people who really got in my way consistently were the Legion and Asgard with their huge bands in everything. The massive expansionist policies of the Legion were continually annoying. I also did not end up starting out with a great many green worlds nearby. I was terraforming nearly from the start. There was not a single planet near me by the end of the game that was yellow. I often began terraforming worlds while they were still red at times so I could get them green as swiftly as possible later. Zappa was a good example of this.

At the beginning of the game the Adioids made mention of their position and asked to be friends with people, so I sent them a reply saying I was interested in working with them. After a little bit of discussion I found the Specks had a similar relationship so we formed an alliance. Initially we planned to build up our tech enough to get some trading going and then to destroy the Fnord. I also made contact with the Legion who seemed friendly at the time and negotiated some intersettlement. This is where the Legion got claim on some planets the Q tips wanted. They were not to be traded to my knowledge, they were planets that had been traded to him. He asked me about it and I told him it was his in my view but I had no ships to support him in holding them if he couldn't. Which was true at the time.

Regardlesss, I was hoping to get some additional technology since he mentioned some advanced remote miners and I expected that meant a AR race, which would be mean energy as well. Turned out to be the Woblor though. I figured that even if we were different alliances, we could perhaps be friendly for the time being until we beat up some other races. After a while I found out he was allied with the Woblor and the Asgard, but the amount of time it took me to get that, plus his willingness to ally with people past the 3 person limit, and finally his lack of willingness to work out any useful trading for me, was aggravating me. I let it alone though so I could expand elsewhere. We'd decided we'd leave the Legion last if alliances remained as they were. I didn't want to dig out an IS with low tech bombs. The Specks were worried about the Pionner at the time too and we thought then we'd fight them next. I didn't much like the Q tips since they were telling people where I lived and my PRT, so I had little contact with them. I decided eventually I'd give lukewarm support verbal support to both them and the Legion and hope they just battled each other for a while. I did as much as I could to stall things like settling Trog, which the Legion wanted to launch an assault. I do have to say his constant attempts to wring more planets from me further angered me.

The Legions biggest error the whole game I think was clearly that he pushed people too hard and was not always the nicest about it. His diplomacy really soured me on him. I generally do not like dirty diplomacy but I felt no compunction about it after having to deal with some of his comments. Though I will say though, I don't think I ever told an out and out lie in any communication. I try to avoid that. There were certainly numerous times though I said things that could be taken different ways and were slanted so people would hear what they wanted to hear.

I attempted to trade bio for energy with the woblor so I could more easily get rober barons later on, yet use organic armor while it was useful. It took me a while to move that far west well though since the Specks had to settle a refueling point for me.

As everyone knows, the Fnord eventually left and the invasion became something more talked about since we didn't exactly want to spend the resources on a nonexistant threat until we had better bombs. The Adioids made vague comments of having to break for a bit, then never came back. We waited for a while but then I eventually told the Specks this was worthless. I was long since suspecting from Legion emails and other information gained from worried Q tips and the like (I think I got a very good amount of diplomacy done in emails, many times without the recipiants knowing what I was after) that there was an Asgard/Legion/Woblor axis. Possibly Pionner as well. Some suspected tech trading was seen in any case. It seemed likely the core alliance would eventually crush the rest of us and we therefore could not afford to be two races by ourselves.

That basically left the Pionner and the Q tips. Everyone else was too far besides the Legion and Woblor, and it'd be across hostile territory. I suggested the Pionner initially since I thought a warmonger who wasn't embattled would be more useful in the long run. The Specks didn't believe he would be much of a team player though and we therefore decided on the Q tips. I wasn't very happy still about having my homeworld location sold out earlier in the game (and as a side note this was the initial justification for why the Legion attacked the Q tips) but I didn't see much other choice so I decided to just let bygones be bygones and we invited them in. This was when our tech trading got started more in earnest, though it was mostly me giving to others to start with. I was the only hyper growth race in our group so for the moment my tech was much stronger than some embattled hyper production races. The long wait had been largely due to the slow expansion of my race by fueling ports (usually a new planet when found was too far without a relay point) and then the researching of gates. I know that the Speck technology was absolutely horrible early in the game. He was researching only weapons and I was often even with him by using my SS bonus alone.

Anyway, while this was going on (or thereabouts) I was settling the edge of Woblor space in force as a wormhole had opened. This wormhole remained for most of the game. I was considering this a sort of passive invasion of the area. Whether or not I attacked later was under consideration. I wasn't going to do anything at least until I got the tech traded. Woblor started bombing most of my new colonies though, including some that had even been suggested as places to look at by the Legion, who was his close ally. I sent destroyers through to defend myself and this started a bunch of Legion complaints about me not being nice to him. Which I basically ignored as I'd not settled any place of any interest to him to settle. I'd broken no treaties as I'd had no border treaty with the Woblor. I decide not to talk with him though regardless. I had to expand someplace and Woblor territory was the best direction for me to go. I started moving out with military escorts and took Hydroplane, and then I sat down to gain more pop for a while, as well as on Little Brother.

About then the Legion decided my space was free game to settle and moved on the old Fnord homeworld. I warned him off but he got crabby again and so I built ships and scared him off. He got away with split fleet dodge, but the next year all his fleets but the decoy got blown up in my minefield. It amused me greatly.

He did drop Little Brother though which was still getting defenses, something I couldn't stop. He tried attacking Zappa but he screwed up his battle orders and his ships wouldn't close. The next year I had the place armed and shot his ships down. He also failed to seize Trog. Trog and Zappa were annoyances. I needed them stratgically but there were unable to be green without extensive terraforming, so I could only get about 120 resources a year and 55 mines apiece on them. I did the best I could.

Eventually while I and the Q tips were doing small raids on Woblor space the Specks got a big armada of jihad ships to wipe them out. This was going fine until the Specks decided to attack Nifleheim and we were unable to regain momentum. This is the one instance I do want to say I told them so. It was argued over extensively but I didn't win that one. For a while we barely held on in the region, our strategic mishap only not bringing us ruin because the Legion wasn't planning out things much better. He bombed both my planets but didn't stick around to finish them off at all and made other huge errors. And then I had jihad bases up. I might have held on anyway but it took me a long time to get the jihad tech.

This is a note, it is generally not smart to put 2 techs on a single scrapper when one is a rush. I got a couple levels of propulsion from Specks before I ever got missles, which was what I needed. This is how I lost Trog too. Missles came a few turns too late.

Those croby bayonnets the Legion used were the cheapest things imaginable I have to say. The armor was not limited by RS and the shielding was enhanced by it. There was no real counter to his frigates in the early game at all besides mass sappers and then mass frigates with beams. And you'd need more total. If it wasn't for those and his croby shielded starbases we would have beaten him early on.

I think this was about when we began more serious discussions with the Ethereals and the Lemmings both. I had talked to the Ethereals briefly before but not to any real extent. They seemed mostly angry about the Asgard locking them in and I talked them into trading me energy, which I was having the Q tips scrap and disseminate. They didn't know it went to them first. I let him have a planet to placate him and because I didn't think he'd be a threat. He was worried about being all found out and all so I gave him a phony email threatening him if he tried anything to use; involving he was not to put beams on his base and clear my minefields. Of course I really would have blown up his colony if that had been the case but it was something that had more of a tone of an arrogant power speaking down to an unwilling vassal then a gentle reminder to a friendly race. Not sure if he ever did use. He had eventually joined the A/L/W axis out of fear of destruction by the Asgard though I tried to keep him from trading them energy. I'm not sure how successful I was, though the Legion seemed to have poor shields all game. The Lemmings were also worried about the Asgard. The Q tips were assigned to talk them into being helpful independent of us in order to conceal the true extent of our southern alliance. Then we could come across later as a loose confederation of disgruntled races when in actuallity everything in the south was heavily coordinated, involving multiple emails each turn of discussion and sharing information.

Eventually the Ethereals started dumping us extensive information on their discussions of tech trading and ship movements. This was helpful when we used it. I did miscalculate in having the specks at harrison go north where the legion destroyed the ships by ship-follow commands. I don't think they expected it to move that direction though so it was mostly luck. The Specks abandoned Harrison, which I didn't think was a good idea as it gave the Legion room to expand from Nifleheim, even if it wasn't a very good Speck world. What was more useful was indications of what the Legion and Asgard had tech wise. We were able to plan how long we had for example before the Legion got level 16 weapons and started building more ships. And finally what was most useful was there was evidence of poor communication. The Legion said things like "Well, let me talk to the Woblor" and was still trying to argue the Asgard into helping fight us. So it became clear to me their alliance was strong in output of resources but its connections were very faulty. Only the Legion seemed to know what the Asgard and Woblor were doing, and only the Asgard seemed to know what the Ethereals were doing. We found out about the little colonization mishaps and the like and I got together with the Q tips and we began an aggressive campaign to win the hearts and minds of the Asgard people. I sent an apology over a scout ship that got accidently destroyed (which the Asgard didn't recall and I didn't really think important, but it was a conversation starter and made me look nice) and worked to smooth things over with him and the Q tips while the Q tips took a bit harder approach about the borders. I generally through the game took an apathetic note on his borders and encouraged intersettlement. The Q tips made hard edges so he never intersettled too far (I'd learned my lesson with letting the Legion move close to me). I also made sure he knew our side of the story (none of which was made up I want to mention, though of course was done by my perspective, which may have differed by player).

Then we started sending technology to the Lemmings, who he decided to focus on fighting. Hence making sure he focused on the Lemmings, slowly fighting them across the north, for a good long while. The Lemmings got a huge amount of advanced tech from the rest of us, which was why we often heard mention of things from the Asgard like "Wow, the Lemmings are really strong still, they must be an HP race." No such thing. He was pretty weak to my knowledge and had few minerals. We just sent him stuff to arm him far past his means.

I think this was about when things all collapsed in their alliance for whatever reason (wasn't told this), and then we managed to move on the Woblor again, using Speck MMs under Q tip control for cloaking. I contributed a few ships, but was mainly getting the tech for robber barons and battleships. I counseled waiting for battleships and not getting MMs, but the Specks went ahead anyway. In the end, their decision was the right one that time. It may not have been if the Legion had waited and got beamer battleships with no armor to gate (which is what I thought he would make) instead of building more croby frigates, which were not too useful anymore ship for ship. He built some missle cruisers too but they weren't any match for the speck MMs with their single 8 slot of weapons. I was building missle battleships now to destroy his colonies in my space and had just mass packeted a bunch of his planets he left undefended (Legion played a bit arrogantly at times so far as ground defense). Didn't get a chance before game ended however.

Regardless, I was expanding in the northwest, trying to mop up the Legion using battleships after my mass packets, and was gaining ground again after being choked in expansion in Woblor territory. We were finally decisively beating the Woblor and Legion on all fronts (though most of the "decisive" was more just out and out fleeing by the enemy) and the Specks had doomsday battleships coming out in the near future to help wrap up Legion ultrastations in the south In a few years we would have controlled everything south of the Legion home systems, east of the Pionner, and below the Asgard. From our estimation of the Legion fleet he couldn't have beaten our armada. There was also a chunk of the NW, though a wormhole to Legion space may have ruined our day there. We were going to eventually mass beamer battleships with the Specks (flux capacitor was why him) while I got missle ships and Q tips provided more light raiders to help when we began using robber barons. A tech that would have gone into use beginning next turn. We were very strong then as we'd gotten to 14 energy from the Ethereals to supplement our own gains, though we'd lost contact with them to any extent in the recent past. The Lemmings were about done but were able to keep offing a few Asgard colonies here and there as well as stray Legion ones he'd overexpanded on. The Pionner coming in and attacking the Asgard was a bonus. I expected the Asgard to defeat them soundly, but losing a chunk of his 250+ cruiser fleet and blunting his expansion significantly. And then he'd be no match for our existing fleet and our upcoming fleet, which would have our significant PRT advantages behind us. Robber barons alone could have tied him down with big fleets guarding every world if we kept some heavily cloaked armed rogues with them. Stealth Bombers would have made every expansion attempt a trial. And with no one trading with him he was done in my mind. I think the only late game alliance that would have saved him was with the Pionner. And after the Pionner lost in the NW (unless their battleships had more than I thought) we could have easily seized his poorly defended Warmonger worlds.

Anyway, thats how things went, good game everyone.

By the way, some general questions for Asgard:

What exactly was the final status of the Asgard and Legion alliance? I never saw much coordination and you could have beaten us early before we got more space to expand to and the factory dependent economies got going. Especially with the mass Legion croby hordes that were unbeatable by equivalent resource spending early on.

Unless you were going to ride to the rescue of the Legion for the first time ever I don't see how you could have stopped their defeat. The Woblor were finished and you couldn't have possibly saved enough of them to matter with the Pionner fighting you. And you might not have done enough then if your ships were too low tech.

The lack of coordination was all that saved us really from a Claim Adjuster race economy on top of the Legion and his mass croby ships.

Furthermore, I know you did nothing while I destroyed Legion colonies at will other places. On one occassion I even traded you a Legion colony I wiped out (Armstrong I think it was, it was near Alsea). You also didn't seem too broken up about Crazy Horse.

Outside of trade I couldn't see how you did anything for them or they for you. And I'm grouping the Woblor in with the Legion here, who did work with them. The Woblor would have been destroyed decades ago without Legion interferance. You didn't even know about the Speck relations and it shouldn't have taken rocket science on the Legion and Woblor's part to figure out that SS races don't have Meta Morphs, and large numbers of them. So I'm assuming you never shared information between each other later on. We figured by that point at least the Legion would be sending you cries for help and listing things like that as a threat. Without a third party he was essentially finished.

So yeah, anyway, what was up with all that? You guys had much better starting positions (you had two homeworlds of non players next to you and the Legion had plenty of worlds that he could defend) and races so in that sense you should have easily won. You didn't lose in a mechanics sense. What you lost in far and away was in diplomacy and large scale strategy. What happened?

SevenofNine :

Ok, I'm a little busy at the moment, but a few quick answers to some of the comments above...

I knew the Lemmings were week (I suspected others were trading/giving tech), but I needed the Legion to believe I was fully engaged and thus not able to join them in battle. I had control of several Lemming planets preventing him building fleets.

[I Still dont know why he didnt put all his ships in one fleet and attack me when he had the chance - NAS ?]

I was also scared about looking too strong - hence the odd line in emails about not knowing ship designs, having a mineral shortage, not knowing how to bomb a 93% def planets, not having very good scanners, etc]
(and btw, the lack of a Ethereal bombing fleet to take the Lemming planets that I handed them was very funny and a dead giveaway !)

The impression I got from emails from the Legion was that they were doing ok - if anything they thought they had the upper hand !! The last thing I wanted was a Qtip/Dark collapse which would allow the Legion to grab their space. I needed to keep the Legion/Woblor vs Q.tip/Darks battle balanced. I did this as best I could - even trading with the Qtips on some occasions !

My game strategy was very simple - keep the Wobloid/Legion vs Q.tip/Dark battle going as long as possible, Finish off the Lemmings (and perhaps the Etherials), then join the battle on whoevers side looked weakest.

SlaveofSeven/Lemmings :

Because my race was so weak: there was some sort of mix up with the file, so I ended up playing the original complete newbie version instead of the post-advice improved version. No doubt a better player could have made more of it, but I just couldn't get anywhere. Didn't have the pop for expansion, didn't have the economy for, well, anything. When the first MT appeared, 5000kt of minerals would have been a quarter of everything I had, literally. heh

For those interested:
JoaT
IFE, GR
15%
1 in 2 habitable (sadly almost no decent greens)
10/10/10 G box checked
10/5/10
Weap expensive (and bio), rest normal

So basically I knew the best I could hope for was grabbing a modest amount of territory and trying to hold it. Just didn't have the economy to keep expanding.

As for why I didn't attack you when I had the large(er) fleet assembled, I knew you'd be able to rebuild and come back at me, whereas any losses for me were crippling (particularly in terms of minerals - I had a bit of bad luck there as well as the poor economic settings), so I thought it'd be better to try and dig in and defend instead of losing half my fleet for a temporary victory. In retrospect I should have been more aggressive; wouldn't have made any difference in the end, but it would have been more fun.

Have to be honest and say I didn't enjoy the game much playing with that race, but it was fun to play with you guys. Maybe next time things'll be a little different.

SevenofNine :

That explains a lot.
Thats one bad race - Weapons expensive, rest normal !!
Never seen that before (and probably never will again). I thought I was mad taking all techs expensive and hoping to trade my way to the end game.

Oaughn :

Here are my two cents.

EARLY GAME - Startup era: 2400-2410
As a double-immune 14%(=2*7%) growth-rate HE with cheap weapons and everything else expensive, my plan was to grab the tons of great planets I was guaranteed of finding and find nice allies with stargates to complement my weaknesses. I *had* to find an ally who intersettled heavily with me, lacking gates of my own, and therefore that ally must totally trust me, and I him.
The DA turned out to be perfect -- they were also strong growth, perfectly complemented my hab range, and were practically next door. Thank you Adioids!
This alliance was quickly developing around 2405. Within a year or two, we were extensively trading scouting data (albeit with some difficulty, because of the huge mass of data to be transferred) between the Adioid-DA-Speck group.
Naturally, I was estatic -- I believe by around 2405-2407 I already had mapped out every planet that I could conceivably take within 5-8 warp-9 years from my planet, and was already entering in colonization plans into my 'empire' spreadsheet.

The alliance was not without its strains. The Adioids were already looking weak -- even in the huge list we had, they simply couldn't find habitable planets. The DA contacts to their northern neighbor, the Legion, made me quite worried that our embryonic alliance might falter. Since I knew of many great planets deep in DA space that I loved, I was worried. Also, by this time (I think in around 2406-ish) the woblor had already been harassing my colonizers and killing my tiny colonies (Sodium) near them. Too, we learned the Woblor and Legion cooperated. Because of these internal and external challenges, I threw myself into diplomacy for a few years, trying to probe the extent of the Legion/Woblor alliance, encourage their focus on the Q-tips, and extract information from the Q-tips about other possible ways to distract our neighbors (i.e. attacks from the other side). I also began overtures to the Pionner, who I knew to be WM. An alliance between the Pionner and Woblor would be a disaster for me personally and our alliance in general, because we'd be surrounded, with no obvious weak points to exploit.

MID-GAME - critical realignments: 2410-2435
Economically, bounded by a border on the west with the Pionner and to the north with the Woblor, I expanded east, into the already scouted DA area. At this time, most of my colonization plans were set, and I entered into my spreadsheet projections that fairly accurately modelled the growth of my power.

Diplomatically, the DA and I independently realized the Adioids had to go [this is around ~2420]. We had already (through me) been helping the Q-tips with information about Legion/Woblor plans. Too, from a strategic sense, the Q-tips were much better allies -- and, furthermore, I knew the Q-tip leader to be a wily tactician who would be a great advantage in the conflicts to come. [I learned later that he had been thwarting the bulk of Legion attacks with just 8 weak destroyers.] So the new alliance was born.
The Q-tips brought to the alliance knowledge of the Asgard. The DA, from his own work with the Legion, knew the Asgard were working with the Legion. I personally feared the worst...particularly as scouting revealed the extent of Asgard power. I began to worry about the Asgard a lot. The DA tried stalling tactics with the Legion, but as he noted in his email their relations rapidly deteriorated.
With regard to other species, I made efforts to contact other species and outline the Asgard/Legion/Woblor 'threat', which really worried me. During this time, the Pionner and I developed excellent relations, from both our points of view -- we had a border, and we left each other alone. [This border still holds!] The Pionner were in the middle of crushing the Anarod...and while I made some preliminary contacts with their leader, in the hope of keeping the Pionner bogged down, I quickly relized it was pointless: I didn't have gates, and couldn't help them, and information wasn't helpful against WM destroyers. [The Anarod were soon annihilated.]
Finally, I tried to develop 'ok' relations with the Legion/Woblor, to keep the surprise attack (see below) a real surprise. By 2432, things were going so well that the Woblor let me launch what (to them) was a set of resupply fleets for a small colony at Lambda.

Militarily...well, that gets tricky. The Q-tips were skirmishing, doing remarkably well considering the few resources they had to bear. The DA started their settling of space near the Woblor homeworld (Whistler's mother, etc). I had been working towards Jihad missiles since the beginning of the game. Eventually, with Q-tip assistance (~2426), we decided on the Jihad plan described in the Q-tip message, and worked out a detailed timetable...but, because I wasn't able to reach the force limits or refuelling requirements the Q-tips set up, that didn't work out as planned. [Argh! It was close, too...that Niflheim spacedock was almost dead.] Well, we were still able to take out the New and Hell ships at the same time, if I recall.

LATER GAME: 2435-present
[This is a really long post, and I'm going to stop because I'm tired of writing it and reading the gazillion old emails we wrote to figure out what we did way back when.]

At this point, I had to travel fairly frequently, so my diplomatic efforts were eliminated, and my emails to my allies erratic, to their dismay, since miscommunication caused quite a few problems. Fortunately, I didn't have much to do -- I was near completely in the rear area, and (with the exception of a second, disasterous attempt on Sodium) didn't do much militarily for the rest of the game until what became the 'endgame' period.
Nor was my economy much trouble -- I just grabbed yellows when I got the appropriate radiation terraforming, and gradually worked them up to good planets.

Really, after the problems at Sodium, I built some minelayers, put myself into a heavy research mode, and tried to do a better job at getting tech to and building ships for my allies. I had an economy, but lacking penetrating scanners, stargates, or direct knowledge of the front I couldn't as easily make military plans myself. So I waited.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:
I have all the emails I sent and received, if anyone wants to read them, along with all my turns.

Dark Angels :

The Legion WAS doing pretty good until near the end, he'd made only moderate gains after his initial attack at best but they were gains.

The problem was that the Woblor had been attacked a few times and they basically no longer could contribute much. About all they could really do after our first few skirmishes was screw up our battle boards so we didn't start next to each other. Which was on reason we transferred ships a lot of the time to one player after that resulted in a couple losses for us.

Also, the Legion took an extrememly aggressive tactic that he couldn't hold up on and made too many people angry at once. His hyper growth was going to run out sooner or later, as was his croby sharmor advantage. I didn't think there was anyway to beat him in a resource war at the croby frigate stage so I basically teched most of the game. I only built moderate numbers of ships until near the end where I started battleship construction.

After we got the Speck economy going and I had jihad missles his offensive was pretty much stalled with what he had. He tried to rely on juggernaut cruisers to back up his bayonnets but he built them too late because the Specks had Metamorphs already, which are an overall superior ship. I think even Rogues might be slightly better in the medium ship classes cost for cost. And I was rushing to battleships as fast as I could go at this point. Cruisers with no more than 200 shielding against fully armed juggernaut battleships are little more than fodder. This was the point his croby shields no longer did enough, which was what had made it impossible to attack back. As I said the armor component was not limited by RS and the shielding was enhanced, so his docks were much stronger than what we could put out early game, even knowing what we had to counter.

Then I mass packeted him with all the minerals I didn't need to take out most of his planets inside my borders and planned to begin wiping him out from there. I had something like 10 battleships with juggernauts plus about 15 or so Q tip MM beamers with heavy blasters. He still had croby docks so he was dead meat at that point. And once his outlying colonies were gone then I assumed we could just push on his interior. As soon as I had robber barons I was going to use that to harrass him and force him to divide his forces.

Anyway, I guess your plan ended up getting pretty much screwed up by the Pionner in the end? That wasn't any of our doing, he sent me little more than threats about things. Though I knew he'd attack someone and I'd made a border with him so I thought he might go for someone else first sooner or later. I did believe you about not wanting anyone to be strong incidently. That was why I never told anyone about how extensive the southern alliance was. If you'd known you probably would have joined the Legion earlier because you had to know his output wasn't equal to ours combined and would fail when we got the PRT advantage.

ForceUser/Ethereals :

Well, Well, Well....

Looks like nobody really knew much about me.

I am hurt though that the DAs Didn't trust me

Anyways, I was allied to Everybody I had contact with but my main POA was to just SURVIVE to End game where I *might* have had a chance with either the DA/Q-tip/Speck alliance (Wakking whoever was the wekest/uselesest or even the Asguard although thay did hem me in real tight right from the Start and didn't want to give up some border planets for me .

As I only had 9 planets, I didn't have much resourses to put into tech so When I reached en 14 I sent about 100 or more scrappers to the Q-tips but told the Asguard alliance that I wasn't there yet and still waiting for Deathstars (Hoped to get them right about now anyways)

I REALLY didn't have any Bombers (Not because I didn't want to bomb the Lemmings. But I did begin with my Mineral mining and fountain. and Could have really stareted making a lot of ships (About 8k resourses worth per turn ) and thats just with normal stations (Not Ultras yet) and 9 planets!

I was hoping to get a lot af planets from the Asguard as thay destroyed Lemming planets so that could have helped in the long run. I had no Warships because I REALLY felt safe behind the Asguard even while workinbg as a spy, hoping he wanted to use my mineral fountain later in the game.

Anyways, For me this GAME was absoulutely junk BUT I had great fun as the Diplomat AND Spy. I aslo only wanted to, after everybody was finished fighting everybody, come in and take whats left with my HUGE Fleets of future Nubs.

Can’t say I Enjoied the game but I did like the Intrigue!

SevenodNine :

Quote : “That was why I never told anyone about how extensive the southern alliance was. If you'd known you probably would have joined the Legion earlier because you had to know his output wasn't equal to ours combined and would fail when we got the PRT advantage.”

Indeed that was a wise move, as I would have attacked the Q-tips all out had I suspected the Legion were in trouble ! But as far as I can remember, the impression I had right up to the end was that the Legion/wobloid were holding their own. I also believed tech levels were about equal (other than you having a lead in Weapons)

Also, re the communication - unfortunately I don't keep the old emails. Toward the end the communication was sparse, and often excluded the Etherials (I don't think this was deliberate).

With hindsight, I did not have a good enough view of the Southern activities to see the Legion defeat coming, and I don't think the Legion did either (he had LRT:NAS btw). If he did see your military build up, either he didnt communicate it to me, or I failed to take it seriously.

Either way, well played gents.

Dark Angels :

I'm not sure as it was a lack of trust so much, I left you friendly all game Ethereals. We were cautious though because it was hard to know what you were up to. In the end I was generally just of the opinion you couldn't hurt us severely without the support of others so there wasn't a real reason to exclude you and convinced others of that. Just keep in mind though, there were some worries since you betrayed your other alliance. Being a turncoat once is likely to make you one twice.

As I said, the problem near the end was that the Wobloids weren't producing anything so it was almost 3v1 save for taking out the Wobloid planets he was hitting us from. He'd had an advantage over myself and the Q tips due to his croby hordes for a while but after that got done with a turnaround was only a matter of time since he wasn't doing much better than even with the Specks at best.

And yes, good game all around. I regret we couldn't have carried battle to each other. Was a bit boring just fighting the Legion all the time.

Kaly :

First of all I would like to congratulate the Asgard for theirs magnificent resources and number of planets.
Also would like to congratulate the Winning Alliance for their co-operation showed.

Also would like to say that I’m a beginner internet player so don’t now much about player relations and diplomacy, AI don’t talk back and won’t make border lines with you and surely don’t trade any Tech.

In reply to the Asgard question, why do I attack them
The first hawser is panic, as I saw that the Asgard already have build a space dock with stargate at Lukundoo and pursuit the Lemmings from there realised that should keep my supremacy in the region so I used my obsolete bombers to wipe out Lukundoo, Decatur will be next...
I did have a treaty with the Asgard, so I though but the insistent colony that have taken Pilgrim’s Harbour made think otherwise.
I consider as my space the entire region my race controls not only the planets it occupies, so I have taken Pilgrim’s Harbour as soon as possible.
The Asgard must understand that my priority was the Clinton planet a H.W. that was taken with all the factories and mines still standing, witch combined with the large amount of minerals found there and in the nearby Galbraith planet (more that 20000KT of each kind in total) provide a building facility of the most important. As I controlled the entire SW region from Entreprise would not tolerate any colony in my rear lines.
I had no quarrel with the Asgard and would stop in the Ceres cluster my aggression but won’t allow any ship to go SW of Entreprise.
As for the Lemming in that area they would not pose a treat no matter how many frigates they possess so I would not interfere in their war with the Asgard, not yet.

A note to the Black Angels reference to my battle ships(26 ships), in fact they weren’t so obsolete as my destroyers (W10) they have 300 weight(no armour) but are equipped with shields 10 and beam weapon 16, count as capital ships and would proved to be deadly once your missiles would shot at my chaff (destroyers already in place)

I don’t consider my planets to be “poorly defended” in fact haven’t build any Dreadnought because they would be as obsolete as my Battle ships so I preferred to maintain a defensive mobile fleet until reached better tech.
For your information my tech at the time was Ener 11; Weap 20; Prop 10; Const 17; Elect 10; Bio 6.
If necessary I would build missile ships but was trying to reach E 14 in order to build better shielded Beam weapon ships and really on chaff.

In justice my Pionner didn’t posed any threat to the Alliance but I was building up my few planets relying in a safe border with the Spevck2 witch I considered to be my Friends, I would only take action if the occasion should arise in the battle with the Wobloids and even there would try not to occupy any planet but to prey on the remaining fleets hoping to gain some tech.

My resources at year #60 are 22450, I would prefer to keep my race secret because is of my design and wish to use it until I improved it.

I would like to thank every player that stuck to the end but also would like to say that I consider to be much unfair the outcome of a game in which players drop out. Most of the territory I gathered was from two drop out players so that shows how unbalance the game becomes as your opponents drop out.
Never the less I had a great time and a learning experience playing against human opponents.

SevenofNine :

Quote : “Also would like to say that I’m a beginner internet player so don’t now much about player relations and diplomacy, AI don’t talk back and won’t make border lines with you and surely don’t trade any Tech.”

Welcome to the real thing !! I am sure you will enjoy the game far more against real players. I look forward to joining you in another game some time in the future.

Quote : “In reply to the Asgard question, why do I attack them
The first hawser is panic, as I saw that the Asgard already have build a space dock with stargate at Lukundoo and pursuit the Lemmings from there realised that should keep my supremacy in the region so I used my obsolete bombers to wipe out Lukundoo, Lukundoo will be next...”

In reality this did negligable damage, but made me very annoyed. My response was to immediately divert ~300 crusers to Loki and counter design your BBs !

Quote : “I did have a treaty with the Asgard, so I though but the insistent colony that have taken Pilgrim’s Harbour made think otherwise.”

As a general rule you will find it unwise to break treaties without notice - other players will not trust your agreements in future, and ultimately I have found maintaining player trust far more valuable than taking a few planets. I would only break an agreement if the result were spectacular (and by that I mean game winning). Any comments from the other players ?

Quote : “The Asgard must understand that my priority was the Clinton planet a H.W. that was taken with all the factories and mines still standing.”

Yep, I guessed that. For info, my intended tactic was a mass driver at Armstrong & Loki!

Quote : “A note to the Black Angels reference to my battle ships(26 ships), in fact they weren’t so obsolete as my destroyers (W10) W10 have 300 weight(no armour) but are equipped with shields 10 and beam weapon 16, 16 as capital ships and would proved to be deadly once your missiles would shot at my chaff (destroyers already in place)”

Try running the battle simulator with them against a missile cruser (cruiser 50) 50 a battle speed of 2.5 and orders to disengage - actually I'll save you the hastle - the Cruser fires missiles twice then disengages before your BBs get a shot in. Ultimately you lose your fleet without killing a single enemy ship.

Quote : “For your information my tech at the time was Ener 11; 11 20; 20 10; 10 17; 17 10; 10 6.”

Now that is impressive ! I assume you were WM, -f, -f Weap/Con, normal Elec/Energy, Exp Bio with GR ? We could have formes a great alliance (tech was my biggest weakness) !

SlaveofSeven :

Quote : “As a general rule you will find it unwise to break treaties without notice - other players will not trust your agreements in future, and ultimately I have found maintaining player trust far more valuable than taking a few planets. I would only break an agreement if the result were spectacular (and by that I mean game winning). Any comments from the other players ?”

I think most players include a 5 year notice of dissolution in any alliances they form and often a 3 year one in NAP's. That's the way I prefer to play. I'd never just attack an ally. Apart from not wanting to get a reputation as a back stabber, it's just not cricket. I felt bad enough about that scouting incident that sparked off the Asgard/Lemming war!

Dark Angels :

Game Setup

Game: Pebble in the Sky
Host will NOT be playing.
Also host will offer advice on races if requested, although I may need to ask advice of other more experienced players. I will keep identity of race owner secret.
Max players: 16, min 8.
Game start: 1st Feb at the latest.
Universe size: Medium
Density: Normal
Player Pos: Distant

Options:

* Accelerated BBS
* Galaxy Clumping
* No Public Player Score

Cheats allowed:

* Chaff
* Split Fleet
* All others banned

Winner:

Owns 60% of all planets or by general consensus.

All races PRT allowed.
Individual or group wins allowed: Lets see some diplomacy going on here people! Maximum group size for a win: 3. Please no pre-arranged diplomacy. All initial communication to be done through game. Turn will be generated a maximum delay of 48 hours, or sooner. Alliances must be of at least 2 different PRTs to win - lets see people using their differences.